Your Story is Not Unique

[00:00:00] Bart Leger: Are you feeling burnt out, stressed, or overwhelmed from the demands of being a first responder? In this episode, I'm sitting down with retired firefighter paramedic Matthew Matty Fiorenza, who knows exactly what you're going through. After facing his own battles with PTSD, anxiety, and stress, Matty turned his pain into purpose by helping first responders find the support and healing they need.

[00:00:28] Bart Leger: Tune in as we talk about his journey. The resources available to you and practical steps You can take to protect your mental health. You won't want to miss it. Welcome to surviving your shift, your go to resource for building resilience in your high stress career. I'm your host Bart Leger, where we'll not only talk about responder burnout and our experiences, the trauma.

[00:00:56] Bart Leger: But we'll equip you with the practical steps you can take today [00:01:00] to get your mind out of overdrive and find meaning and joy again in answering the call.

[00:01:11] Bart Leger: Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Surviving Your Shift. This is episode 24, and I'm really excited about today's guest because he's someone who truly understands the unique challenges. that come from being a first responder. I'm here today with Matthew Matty Fiorenza is a retired firefighter paramedic with over 22 years of service.

[00:01:36] Bart Leger: But what makes Matty's story so powerful is how he turned his own struggles with anxiety, stress, and PTSD into a mission to help others in our community. From co founding a first responder treatment facility to To teaching new recruits healthier coping mechanism, Matty has dedicated his life to making sure no one has to go through [00:02:00] these challenges alone.

[00:02:01] Bart Leger: Well, Matty, it's an honor to have you on the show today. Thanks so much for joining us and for being here to share your story and insights with our listeners. 

[00:02:10] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here and, and, uh, be on your podcast and just keep spreading the word. Oh, great. I hope you don't mind me calling you Matty.

[00:02:20] Bart Leger: No, 

[00:02:20] Matt Fiorenza: that's, 

[00:02:21] Bart Leger: that's my name. That's my name. So yeah. When you're not out there advocating for mental health and supporting first responders, how do you like to unwind and spend time with family? What are some things you all enjoy doing together? 

[00:02:34] Matt Fiorenza: So, I have a little retirement gift. Uh, her name is Jordan. She is, uh, she's 18 months old.

[00:02:41] Matt Fiorenza: So, yeah. And there's, there's a story to that as well. From a treatment that I received from my PTSD. We can talk about that. So, I have three sons, um, one's 23, one's 20, and the other's 17, and then I'm starting all over again with a, with an 18 month old little girl. So, most of my [00:03:00] time off is spent with, uh, with her, just, you know, just watching her grow and, you know, being outside and watching her explore and, you know, some of, a lot of the things I missed out.

[00:03:13] Matt Fiorenza: On the first round. So, you know, just doing the basic things and getting out. We, uh, we live by the beach. I like to surf and get in the water, so we spend a lot of time in the sand. And, um, I like to just do outdoor things. I, I hike, um, I kind of picked that up. I, because of my injuries, my physical injuries, I wasn't able to go into the, into the gym for a long time.

[00:03:35] Matt Fiorenza: And, you know, as the first responders we spent, I spent most of my life in the gym from a very young age. And, and so I had to find other ways to, uh. To get exercise. So I started hiking and I found a group of buddies who like to hike. So I have a backpack and all the equipment. And, um, and I like to do that as well for a long time.

[00:03:53] Matt Fiorenza: I didn't really like sleeping outdoors. Cause I did that a lot on brush fires and I, and it's, I mean, [00:04:00] that's kind of a little different experience. So I'm like, ah, why would I put myself out there again, sleeping outdoors, but I make myself as comfortable as possible with, with that. So I liked it. I like to be outside and yeah, just spend time with family.

[00:04:11] Bart Leger: Good, good. Yeah, we lived near the beach for a while when we were in Florida and loved our time there. And also gotten into backpacking. Same thing. I've got all the, all the gear and, uh, finally ended up working through my gear to get the lighter weight stuff. Yeah. The first few hikes, uh, way too heavy. Yep.

[00:04:32] Bart Leger: Yep. I'm learning that right now, 

[00:04:33] Matt Fiorenza: as a matter of fact. But that light, that ultralight stuff is crazy. 

[00:04:37] Bart Leger: I was going to say, yes, I'm, I started with my tent, uh, got to the ultralight backpack. Um, not there with the sleeping bag yet, but yeah, it's, it's very, very pricey. The more ultralight you go. 

[00:04:53] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, I'll get there.

[00:04:54] Matt Fiorenza: I just gotta, I, my buddy, the other day, actually, he showed me his ultralight backpack. He's kind of like handing some stuff down to [00:05:00] me and he's like, yeah, you gotta, I'm like, bro, I'm on a retirement budget. I said, I get, I'll just get stronger. I'll just, I'll just work harder. Probably not always a good mindset, but 

[00:05:12] Bart Leger: yeah.

[00:05:13] Bart Leger: Yeah. Yeah. Love going to the, to the, um, REI co op. They've got some good stuff there. Oh, yeah. So does Amazon. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Before we dive into the heavy stuff, I'd like to start with maybe something a little lighter. Can you tell us a little bit about maybe what first drew you to become a firefighter and a paramedic?

[00:05:33] Bart Leger: What was there? Was there a specific moment or experience that Made you realize this was your calling. 

[00:05:39] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah. Well, you know, I come from a family of first responders, you know, that, that, um, is a big part of it. You know, I, um, my dad was a Orange County sheriff's deputy sergeant, medal of valor. He's a Marine and, you know, my grandfather, my uncles, they were all in Vietnam, actually lost an uncle in Vietnam, [00:06:00] was a Marine and, um, yeah.

[00:06:02] Matt Fiorenza: So I always knew I, I wanted to be of service, you know, and, and so I looked into some other careers and I was an explorer for the sheriff's department when I was a teenager and, and I almost joined the Marine Corps. And there was just something about that job. It just, I don't know. I, you know, I say now that it was just guns and bad guys.

[00:06:22] Matt Fiorenza: It just wasn't, it wasn't for me. Wasn't my jam. So, um, I met a girl whose mom was a purchasing agent for the force service. And, um, she was always talking about fire department and base camp and fire camp. And, and, um, and I just, I thought to myself, like, uh, like, why didn't I ever think of that? You know, so I signed up for a class and down at the local community college.

[00:06:45] Matt Fiorenza: I dropped out of the 4 year school to go to the 2 year school. And, uh, I, I just, I'll never forget that day of chief Bruce Stedman. Popping in a VHS tape. Yes, a VHS tape. That old. Yep. Of, uh, the men and women [00:07:00] doing the job. And I was hooked. I'm like, this is, this is it right here. I remember, uh, going up to, to King City, California, which is all volunteer fire department.

[00:07:11] Matt Fiorenza: Uh, with some friends that my mother in law made while she was, she was up there and we went to the firehouse and we had a barbecue and, you know, he let me squirt the hose and it was just, you know, sit on the equipment and, and that was the moment for sure where I was like, okay, whatever I have to do to be able to get paid to do this job, uh, I'm going to do it and yeah, it, uh, and I worked my butt off, you know, it took me about, you know, I'd like to say by the time I, from the time I decided to be a firefighter until the time I got a probation was about six, seven years.

[00:07:45] Matt Fiorenza: And, um, I was very dedicated 

to, 

[00:07:49] Matt Fiorenza: and, you know, I worked two jobs. My, my wife at the time worked two jobs so I can go to the fire academy and I took a second out of my house so I can, so I didn't have to work. And [00:08:00] I really hung it out there to do this. So. And it was worth it, you know, it was really worth it.

[00:08:05] Bart Leger: Good. Well, what are some of the highlights of your career? Things that you just really really proud of or just really stuck out with for you? 

[00:08:12] Matt Fiorenza: Oh, man, you know in complete transparency It wasn't what I thought it would be, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't the big fires or, you know, the, the saves, you know, the highlight of my career was really the connections I made when I was, there were certain times in my career at certain stations with certain people where it was just so fun.

[00:08:43] Matt Fiorenza: To come to work, you know, it like you didn't want to take a day off or trade a ship because you don't want to miss anything, you know, and I was able to have a couple times in my career for years where, um, I was with a really good [00:09:00] crew and it was, it was about being with those, those guys, you know, um, and then towards the end of my career, actually, I, I bid a station with some buddies that no one wanted to be at.

[00:09:14] Matt Fiorenza: And that's, you know, the city of Anaheim is paid by Disneyland. Resort to have for paramedics respond into the resort area and it wasn't really, uh, it's a, you're mostly running medical aid into the resort area. That's what you do. You're you're you take report from a nurse is usually 1st on scene and it's not, there's nothing really sexy or, you know, you're not on a truck.

[00:09:39] Matt Fiorenza: It's none of that stuff and no one really wants to do that job. And we didn't, we just wanted to be together, these guys. And I actually ended up really enjoying it a lot. I loved it. You know, I got to know a lot of the people in the resort area, a lot of Disney employees, as a matter of fact, that's how I met my now wife.

[00:09:57] Matt Fiorenza: She was the security manager there, [00:10:00] but, um, we worked at, we were in a trailer with security, with the nurses, with Anaheim PD, and it was like a really fun time in my career. Just, you know, I mean, it was, we ran on traumatic things and in the resort You know, I have some memories there that aren't the best, but.

[00:10:17] Matt Fiorenza: But just, it was just so much fun to be able to, to be in that space and walk out onto main street and have a cup of coffee, you know, who could say they can do that, like on the job, you know? So, so that was a big highlight when I started the struggle and I went away from the job and I was able to come back.

[00:10:34] Matt Fiorenza: I think that's where some of the biggest highlights of my career were, was, I mean, painfully, you know, we can talk about, I never thought I'd make it back to work, but I got to bring a, a lot of different. Information, if you will, a lot of different concepts that weren't very new to first responder community back to the fire department and then being able to kind of [00:11:00] pay forward what a bunch of combat veterans taught me to my brothers and sisters.

[00:11:05] Matt Fiorenza: Uh, was, was really, really when it, when things really took off, you know, when I was able to, to walk my brothers and sisters through things that I had been through to make their suffering a little bit less and point them in the direction of recovery or different modalities of treatment. And, and I really got taught by some of the tip of the spear people.

[00:11:26] Matt Fiorenza: So, so those, those were like the big highlights really for me was, was being able to go back And and fill in the gaps and stand in the gap with a lot of people who were going through. I was going through, but didn't. You know, still had a lot of stigma and shame around how they were feeling. And so those, that was the ultimate, that was the ultimate highlight reel was able to, to, to help people in the, in the mental health space.

[00:11:52] Matt Fiorenza: You know, I didn't stand like, I didn't go to the USAR. Line and go, nah, and then [00:12:00] hazmat, nah, um, training company, nah, uh, behavioral health. Oh, I'll choose that line, you know. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't like that. 

[00:12:08] Bart Leger: Now I know you've been pretty open about your personal battles with anxiety and stress and PTSD during your career.

[00:12:14] Bart Leger: Can you share what it was like when you first realized something wasn't right? 

[00:12:19] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, well, I mean, to be completely transparent, I didn't realize that for a long time, you know. I, I'm an alcoholic in recovery. There's no, there's no secret about that. Alcohol is in the culture, you know? So, um, right. I, you know, and, and there's a, there's a certain amount of covering for each other that we do.

[00:12:45] Matt Fiorenza: And I was able to run those rails for a long time in. And so what really. You know, my, my, I would say when my marriage fell apart because of my dissociative behaviors was a real wake up [00:13:00] call for me. But still, at the time, there was like 

[00:13:04] Bart Leger: Was there a part of you that realized, yeah, there's just something that's, that's not right here, or was it denial?

[00:13:12] Bart Leger: What would you say? Yes, it was, I was in a ton of denial. A ton of 

[00:13:17] Matt Fiorenza: denial. It's, 

[00:13:17] Bart Leger: you know, it's like, I can handle it. It's not a problem. 

[00:13:21] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah. I got this, you know, while the, while the world's falling around apart around me, you know, cause that's, we, we were just, that's ingrained in us. Like, you just, you pick yourself up and you make it happen.

[00:13:32] Matt Fiorenza: Like, so, you know, I didn't really have until I, um, uh, you know, the divorce was a wake up call and all the desire, the anxiety and the depression, which came rushing back. Right. Like, tenfold, which I know now is because, um, because of traumatic, you know, a traumatic, uh, divorce in my childhood, right? Like, our bodies remember, like, this is all the information I have now.

[00:13:59] Matt Fiorenza: Back then, I [00:14:00] didn't know. So, um, you know, going through that, but I think the real turning point was when I was, uh, arrested for DUI and, uh, I had a suicide attempt, um, where I was going to go out death by cop and, um, And it was at that moment that, um, I realized something was wrong, something was wrong. But it had to, it was, had to be that dramatic for me, you know, and unfortunately it is for a lot of our folks out there.

[00:14:28] Matt Fiorenza: Right. You reached, 

[00:14:28] Bart Leger: reached bottom. So how did you find the courage to seek help? Because not everyone who hits bottom actively reaches out. Or was it more something you were forced to? 

[00:14:41] Matt Fiorenza: Well, here's the thing. I was not forced, but I had some really good people in my corner at the department. One being, um, his name is Rick, uh, Rick Cheatham.

[00:14:57] Matt Fiorenza: And he was, he's a great [00:15:00] guy. You should probably have him on your show. 

He's got a 

[00:15:02] Matt Fiorenza: story. He's got a story. That's incredible. But I would show up to, to work late. And he would pull me in his office and we would have the most incredible conversations, you know, he really cared. He really cared. And I wasn't always completely honest with him because there was always that fear that, hey, if I tell this guy something, I might lose my job.

[00:15:31] Matt Fiorenza: And looking back now, I know for sure. That wouldn't have been the case, but this guy was the union president at the time and he was really pushing hard to get get a special culturally competent together for our, for our fire department, because the police department had it, but we didn't have it. And, um, right about that time that that happened.

[00:15:53] Matt Fiorenza: I don't even think the, uh. The contract was signed with this agency, but he sent a guy from my [00:16:00] department, another guy who I love to death to my house with a business card for a clinician. And basically, and this guy's name is Manny, who, he told me, Manny, we're worried about you, you know, he was in tears and, and, and he's like, promise me you'll go do this.

[00:16:19] Matt Fiorenza: And, um, and I did it, I did it for these guys at first. I just thought, I mean, these guys care enough about me to show up at my house to, to make this arrangement before the contract has signed it to see this clinician whose name is Shauna Hill. Amazing person now a colleague of mine. I've worked with since then but um, it was it was more 

[00:16:42] Bart Leger: for them Right, you know, would you say it was more of a culture of your?

[00:16:47] Bart Leger: Department or your agency or was it an individual within your department? That is the one who really showed the the empathy to you. 

[00:16:56] Matt Fiorenza: It was definitely not the culture Right [00:17:00] I mean don't get me wrong. There are some guys Um, that really before there was peer support, but for our department, we had, like, a system team and it was like, the guys that were, like, spiritually fit and they knew how to run debriefs.

[00:17:14] Matt Fiorenza: And I mean, it had to be really, really bad. To have a debrief, like, something really bad had to happen. It just, it wasn't common, but there was a core group of guys that, um, that were spiritual guys that were good leaders and, um, like Rick and, um, but, you know, therapy and stuff like that. It definitely wasn't in the culture.

[00:17:34] Matt Fiorenza: I just think these guys, they saw that something, you know. That something was not good with me and they were able to, uh, so it was just a couple guys, I would say at that time, you know, but to their defense, we just didn't know what we didn't know and we didn't know all the information we have today about how these things show up in your behaviors.

[00:17:56] Matt Fiorenza: So it was a group, it was a core group of guys and definitely [00:18:00] did it. The uh, more on the labor side 

[00:18:02] Bart Leger: than on the uh, admin side. That's what we that's what we tend to see Now you spent over two decades serving as a firefighter and a paramedic. How did those years on the front lines? You believe contribute to the mental health challenges you faced if at all.

[00:18:17] Matt Fiorenza: Um, yeah, I mean obviously they they did Well, i'll give you one example when we have a uh, a um critical incident And our answer to that critical incident is to get off work in the morning and go to the bar and drink and talk about it to each other. It's so backwards, how we're created and how we are as humans.

[00:18:42] Matt Fiorenza: And when you put alcohol into your system after a traumatic incident, a couple of things happen. One, you kill all the good bugs in your gut that create the happy juices for lack of a better term in your brain, oxytocin and serotonin and things like that. So, and then you don't get good sleep. [00:19:00] The two things that you absolutely 100 percent need after a critical incident.

[00:19:04] Matt Fiorenza: Um, so just that's one thing, right? My, my dissociative behaviors or the way I numbed out to not feel or not think about these things, um, that just over time, right? The other thing too, is I had a doctor who, um, Cause I couldn't sleep when I was at home. So the answer in those days was to give me Ambien and Ambien is a terrible drug when it comes to this, because you never go into REM sleep and when you're not in REM sleep, you don't.

[00:19:31] Matt Fiorenza: So you never process 

[00:19:32] Bart Leger: your trauma. Right. 

[00:19:33] Matt Fiorenza: Right. So I would say it was, yeah, it just, all these little T's and all these and all the big traumas and the near death experiences and everything, my coping skills were terrible. So I never let my body naturally process this stuff. So, so it got stuck, essentially it got stuck.

[00:19:52] Matt Fiorenza: And then, so I, I could, I, there are a few calls. That definitely stays stuck. Stuck. I don't, [00:20:00] I've done a lot of EMDR around those particular calls, so I don't have the physiological response that I used to. It's like the memory comes because of something, you know, I'm in the city of Heim right now at the union office because my wife is the union, she's the office manager for union.

[00:20:16] Matt Fiorenza: So I just drove off the 91 freeway, pulled in here, and I could, I look at a couple street corners and it comes up, but I, but it doesn't affect me the way it used to, like true PTSD. When you feel like you're reliving the experience not to say that Every once in a while that doesn't happen still, but I have so many tools in my tool belt to be able to.

[00:20:39] Matt Fiorenza: To ground myself, and then I have a lot of phone numbers to a lot of men that I trust to share that information with. So so with that said, you know, I think. We know what we know now, and it's important that we're teaching the new folks that, listen, it may seem hocus pocus to do some EMDR after, after [00:21:00] a critical incident, or go do a cold plunge, or go do a float tank, or do some equine therapy, to let your body and your brain heal.

[00:21:09] Matt Fiorenza: In your nervous system, process this stuff so it gets filed in your brain where it needs to get filed. You know, it's just so, that's just stuff that was so weird to us before, right? Now it's like evidence based. 

[00:21:20] Bart Leger: Well you used the term, stuck. And that's where all the maladaptive coping skills that you mentioned, almost keeps people stuck where they are and they still experience the, all of the emotional response, all of the crisis response, physiologically, psychologically.

[00:21:38] Bart Leger: Without allowing their, their minds and, and without incorporating new skills to be able to process that. And there's still so many people that are stuck today. And you're, you're right. There are so many who, who say, well, you know what? I don't know about that. That woo woo stuff. And you know, it's, it's voodoo.

[00:21:54] Bart Leger: And how can somebody, you know, waving a finger in front of your face, uh, do any [00:22:00] good. But it does seem to. Um, and we really try to keep those emotional responses from being attached to the memory. And so we, it works for most people. 

[00:22:09] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah. And 

[00:22:10] Bart Leger: so, 

[00:22:10] Matt Fiorenza: and if it doesn't, there's other things that, that work, you know, but it's, 

[00:22:15] Bart Leger: yeah.

[00:22:16] Bart Leger: So what advice would you give to someone who might be experiencing similar struggles, but hesitant to reach out for help? 

[00:22:21] Matt Fiorenza: I would absolutely say, look, there are plenty of people out there that are feeling or have felt like you feel, and you're not, number one, you're not alone. Uh, my story is not unique and you just have to find the right person that you trust.

[00:22:38] Matt Fiorenza: And I know you, at this point we all know who that person is. We do. There's, and find that person and have the courage 

to 

[00:22:46] Matt Fiorenza: say, I'm not okay and these are the things that I'm experiencing and take some direction because you're, you're brain injured. Right. We're brain injured. And when we're brain injured and we're anxious, we have [00:23:00] PTSD, we're clinically depressed, which I all was.

[00:23:03] Matt Fiorenza: I just didn't, I didn't trust anybody. I didn't trust anybody. And I had to, I trusted those two guys that said, Hey, go check out this person. And then that person I trusted who sent me to another group of people who I, I'm still connected to, to this day. And so it's, it's the thousand pound phone. Just pick up that phone.

[00:23:22] Matt Fiorenza: You can even call me. I, my information is all over the internet and I do, I actually had a guy that reached out who saw the film and the other day on, on Instagram and I take those phone calls and you know, and I can help find you what you need, even if it's not, if it's not someone in your department, it's, there are so many different resources out there that are available, find it, find a group of people that, yeah.

[00:23:46] Matt Fiorenza: You can call your tribe that you can talk about this stuff with. 

[00:23:48] Bart Leger: And it helps when you know that you can speak to someone who's been there, maybe not experienced the same things, but, uh, someone who understands and won't hold it against you. Yep. [00:24:00] So that trust is key factor, isn't it? Absolutely. And 

[00:24:03] Matt Fiorenza: without judgment.

[00:24:04] Matt Fiorenza: And why just. You know, I'm the most, I used to be the biggest judge of everybody and it is not my personality at all anymore and it's good. I love it. And people, there's nothing more special than when someone, you know, who just saw me in the film or heard a podcast that I did calls or see the message and wants to talk to me and you know, when I go speak and people come up to me and they want to share their story and you know, it's, it's really special to me.

[00:24:31] Matt Fiorenza: And, and once you find your people that you can do that with. Yeah. Man, it's a, it's a life vest for sure. 

[00:24:38] Bart Leger: That is great. Now you spent time as director of development and training at Recovery First Treatment Centers. I know you played a key role in establishing the First Responder Treatment Facility. What were some of the unique challenges First Responders that you all saw faced when it came to treatment?

[00:24:53] Bart Leger: Mental health and how do they address those needs? Well, how much time do you have my 

[00:24:59] Matt Fiorenza: friend? [00:25:00] 

[00:25:00] Bart Leger: Gosh, where do I 

[00:25:01] Matt Fiorenza: start? 

[00:25:01] Bart Leger: What are some things that just kind of stick out? 

[00:25:04] Matt Fiorenza: Well, what really pops into my head is, and this is what I hate about this, those businesses is that it's all insurance based and it costs money, you know, and that's one thing.

[00:25:16] Matt Fiorenza: So there's a financial barrier to people getting help, this kind of help. And then you have people who. Uh, there's a lot of politics that goes on. So there's treatment centers that connect with certain wellness coordinators and, and then they pigeonhole their people into one treatment center, um, which is not the right way to do it.

[00:25:40] Matt Fiorenza: We need options for our guys and we need to, to, to do that. But I think there are a lot of good places now, you know, the one that I helped start In Southern California is not the only one in town. Now it was for a long time besides the center for excellence in over in Maryland and they have another one.

[00:25:58] Matt Fiorenza: So I, I've been across the [00:26:00] country. I see a lot of these places popping up to have first responder tracks or, or, um, special or actually just 1st responder. And I, you know, I run, I run groups now. I don't do a lot of business development, but I like being in the trenches with the guys. So I think, um, you know, I think we're getting better at it.

[00:26:17] Matt Fiorenza: We just, you know, if I could say one thing when it comes to that, I would say these, um, fire chiefs have more say than than they think they do with insurance companies. We are a lot of these guys get denied. They get denied from their insurance companies. It's like, whoa, wait a minute. We're paying this insurance company to manage our money.

[00:26:40] Matt Fiorenza: And then when our member who needs specialized treatment, because it's proven that that these guys need. More than just the average citizen. Um, when that insurance company says, no, you know, there are ways as a fire chief or as a police chief or as a sheriff to go to your insurance carrier and say, no, you're going to say [00:27:00] yes to my guys getting 30, 60, 90 days of, of inpatient care.

[00:27:05] Matt Fiorenza: And there are a lot of good places out there today. So those, that's the biggest thing I would say. You know, once the hardest thing, too, is doing interventions. I've done a lot of them. I've done a lot of interventions and and I've created kind of my own way to create a team around these folks and bring them in.

[00:27:23] Matt Fiorenza: But once you can get them across that threshold and get them detoxed and sobered up, I always I never hear 1 say this was horrible. I never want to do it's always like, I should have done this a long time ago. So but it's necessary for some people. 

[00:27:38] Bart Leger: Yeah, I hear that as well. You mentioned fire chiefs I'll be speaking to a group of the state association of fire chiefs next week and What would you I don't know.

[00:27:50] Bart Leger: What would you want me to to say to them? Hmm. We'll have fire chiefs throughout the state 

[00:27:56] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, and this is Louisiana. 

[00:27:58] Bart Leger: Yeah. 

[00:27:59] Matt Fiorenza: Well, first [00:28:00] of all, there needs to be a line item for mental health services for your people You know it, that that's first and foremost. You can find the money, find the money, make sure that you have a good, solid, strong peer support team.

[00:28:15] Matt Fiorenza: You know, encourage them, let them handle it. You don't need to know everything. You don't want to know everything. Say yes, you find a good core group of, you know, peer support leads, wellness coordinators, and give them car blanche to take care of your people. They, you know, there's. Plenty of information.

[00:28:35] Matt Fiorenza: There's other wellness coordinators. They could, there's so many good people that are doing such a good job. The other thing I would say is, like I said, go, go to your risk managers, go to HR, make sure that you have relationships with, um, different inpatient programs, outpatient programs that you have culturally, uh, competent.

[00:28:57] Matt Fiorenza: Clinicians that these guys could can go to with a [00:29:00] blind billing system so that they can, they can go anonymously and just really take into consideration how these everyday calls and the lack of sleep. Is really affecting your people. You wouldn't want to send your people into a burning building that the roof was going to collapse.

[00:29:23] Matt Fiorenza: That's not what's killing guys today. We're killing ourselves, you know, and so whatever you can do to support your, your guys mental health, and maybe, maybe after a criminal incident, the guys need a couple days off, you know. Whatever, just have a good team, have a line item, find the money. And, um, and if you see somebody or someone does something out of character that needs to have some kind of discipline, keep the discipline aside from getting them help.

[00:29:57] Matt Fiorenza: There's consequences for actions, but when you hire [00:30:00] somebody and then 10 years later, they do something that's out of character, maybe we need to look at the brain injury because this is how it shows up, especially for guys who don't want to ask for help, you know, 

[00:30:12] Bart Leger: We were fortunate while I was working at, at our department, uh, very often I would have supervisors come to me and say, What should we do?

[00:30:23] Bart Leger: Should I, should I give them a day or two off or next shift off? I said, yeah, I think you should. Or sometimes I would go to them and say, you know, you need to give so and so some time off. They just need it. I said, they're not, you know, they're not over the top, but I think it'll help them. They'll be better when they come back.

[00:30:40] Bart Leger: And most of the time it was, it was approved, uh, with just that. And then when, right before I retired, probably a year or two before I retired, they would give us what they called a mental health day. But it was, you know, we could take, it was half a day. We could take half a day pretty much for anything we wanted to do.

[00:30:59] Bart Leger: It was [00:31:00] pretty good. Yeah. You were, you were instrumental in launching a weekly support group, I believe for firefighters, law enforcement and veterans. How important is, and you mentioned this, peer support. How important is peer support in the healing process? Not necessarily just critical incident peer support, but what have you seen as the biggest benefits of these groups with peer support?

[00:31:22] Matt Fiorenza: Well, it's everything to be honest with you. You know, um, I work for a police, a board certified police psychologist, um, her name is Dr. Gina Gallivan, and 

she 

[00:31:33] Matt Fiorenza: understood, she's one of the clinicians out there who will tell you, like, clinicians have their place, you know, they're, they're good at what they do, doing therapy, but she said the real work and the real healing happens amongst each other, amongst the peers, and, um, so I think it's absolutely, um, critical, um, To to have a community of practice, um, whether it be a support group or a [00:32:00] peer supporter, or, you know, a friend that you can be honest with about everything.

[00:32:04] Matt Fiorenza: But there's a lot of power in a group. And that's why I, I basically with a buddy of mine created an outline. It's a format. To start, um, a first responder support group and I took some AA and some ACA and, and a little bit of, um, other stuff and I made a little format and I'm happy to share that with anybody so they can start their own group.

[00:32:26] Matt Fiorenza: But it's a good way to just, it's a, it's a, and you can do whatever you want with it from there. You can change however you want, but I'm happy to have conversations and send that in that format to people. But you have to be a great 

[00:32:37] Bart Leger: resource. We can, uh, if, if you'd like, we can put it in the show notes.

[00:32:41] Bart Leger: Yeah, there's no point reinventing the wheel. Is there? 

[00:32:44] Matt Fiorenza: No, no. And I, like I said, I just took a little from this and a little from that and I can have conversations with people, but there's a, there's are up and running, um, all over. And it's really important to have, to have a group of people that you can check in with and, um, [00:33:00] and that you feel safe and, uh, and build that community because it's everything.

[00:33:05] Matt Fiorenza: We don't do this alone and it's not going to happen on duty. You know, in the firehouse, if you're lucky, it will, but not this kind of connection, not this kind of vulnerability, um, not this kind of courage. And, uh, and we check on each other, you know, I, like you said that the day off for mental health, I, I'd even go, um, above and beyond to say a day off for mental health and a peer supporter assigned to you to take you to go do a cold plunge or take you to the beach or teach you how to meditate.

[00:33:35] Matt Fiorenza: You know, someone that can help you get your nervous system back in alignment. So you're not just at home trying to figure it out on your own. I mean, the rest is good, but having somebody to, to connect with and show you some of these different ways to get your nervous system regulated is like It's the best thing ever.

[00:33:53] Bart Leger: That's so important. Isn't it? 

[00:33:54] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, 

[00:33:55] Bart Leger: you mentioned working with Dr Gallivan and I think you all have developed some [00:34:00] wellness programs for agencies. Yes. What are, what are some of the core components of these programs and how can organizations implement them effectively to support their own teams? 

[00:34:10] Matt Fiorenza: Well, one of the things that, um, that we do is we, well, a couple of things, gosh, we do, we do so much.

[00:34:19] Matt Fiorenza: So We have contracts with different agencies, and we go in and do we quarterly training sometimes more than that for the, for their peer support teams, but also for some departments we go in during briefings, you know, and we. With the 20 25 minutes to a half hour we have, we bring yoga therapists in. We do a meditation class.

[00:34:42] Matt Fiorenza: If they want to learn about financial wellness, we send the financial, we have a team of people that will go to briefings, that will go to fire departments, and for the really good peer support teams, especially in California, they collect data anonymously of what the issues are that their department is having [00:35:00] specifically, and then we build trainings around that issue.

[00:35:03] Matt Fiorenza: So that's 1 of the things we do. Um, the other thing we do is we do wellness boot camps. So, um, anybody that's off on stress injury or wants to just be involved, they can come to, um, we do the reality center in, um, in Santa Monica. It's created by a combat veteran named Jonathan Chia. It's, uh, it's essentially it's a ketamine treatment without the ketamine.

[00:35:29] Matt Fiorenza: So you lay on a table, it's a neurofeedback. It's binary beats. It's amazing. So we do that. We unpack it, we do some psychoeducation and then we, we go to lunch and then we go, uh, do a workout and then we do a sound bath and then in Orange County, it's a little different. We do float tank. 

[00:35:47] Bart Leger: You mentioned sound bath.

[00:35:49] Bart Leger: What, what is that? Some of our listeners have probably never heard of that. 

[00:35:52] Matt Fiorenza: What is a sound bath? So. It's a bunch of bowls like singing bowls and different chimes and drums [00:36:00] and there's people that are trained and I mean essentially you lay you lay down on the floor on a comfortable mat and they play these These bowls and you just it's a meditation.

[00:36:12] Matt Fiorenza: It's just it's it's You can't, you cannot lay there and not be relaxed, you know? So that's, that's the sound bath. It's just all these different, all these different sounds that kind of just calm you down. And then Orange County, we do, um, we do our boot camps. We do flow tanks, infrared, cold plunge at Newport body works.

[00:36:32] Matt Fiorenza: And then we go to the Newport beach aquatic center and we paddle out in the Harbor with, uh, another organization called open water. And, um, So, they have 6 men outrigger canoes, they have Santa paddleboards, they have lay down paddleboards, they have kayaks, and we just go out there, we do a little group on the beach, and then we go out in the water, and we paddle around for a little while, and we, you know, being from California, we, a lot of us like to be in that salt water and be in that environment, and then we go [00:37:00] in, uh, After lunch and we do a sound bath and some restorative yoga with a trauma with a yoga therapist that worked with Marines down at Camp Pendleton.

[00:37:09] Matt Fiorenza: So this, we do that. We also, we have a, uh, IOP program, which is an intensive outpatient program for people that are off on work comp injuries. And instead of throwing them to the wolves and them waiting for work comp to do anything to help them. We, uh. They're in our program and we, we get them therapy three to four times a week and then they're, they are, um, connected with an advanced peer that takes them to do all these things that we've been talking about so we can get them healthy and essentially back to work quicker, you know, that's just a few to mention, but we do a lot of trainings and we go out on critical incidents and, and, um, but mostly we, we like to empower our, um, Or peer support teams, we'd like to bring all this stuff to them.

[00:37:54] Matt Fiorenza: We want to train them to be able to do more than just sit back in a debrief or [00:38:00] make the initial call. We want them all to be really high level. Peers to be able to answer all these questions that people call me and my partner all the time. Hey, what do I do here? How do we handle this? Like, you know, We're going to teach you to answer all those questions for you, and we're going to help you build algorithms within your departments, with your staff, with HR, with risk, so that everybody knows what to do when someone's in crisis.

[00:38:24] Matt Fiorenza: Just like every policy and procedure we have for everything else. It shouldn't be a question when someone calls In crisis and says I need help that you don't know exactly what to do exactly where to bring them Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to get the time? How are they going to time off? So that's 

[00:38:39] Bart Leger: just to name a few That's good.

[00:38:41] Bart Leger: I've been more passionate lately about trying to train Paraprofessional peer supporters who go beyond, beyond the critical incident stress. Uh, I, I've, I've termed it comprehensive peer support, which is if someone is going through a difficult time with a marriage, with their [00:39:00] kids, with finances, whatever, they're equipped to deal with pretty much holistically, whatever, whatever comes rather than just waiting until you go through a critical incident.

[00:39:10] Bart Leger: But then you have a, a one on one or you have a diffusing or debriefing and. So people can, at any, any time they're beginning to feel out of sorts, they can reach out to someone and they can liaise for them. They can be a resource for them. Very good. Absolutely. Now, your story has been featured in the documentary PTSD 911.

[00:39:32] Bart Leger: What was it like to share your journey on such a public platform? 

[00:39:37] Matt Fiorenza: Well, to be completely transparent, when I, when I was approached to do that, I was at the top of my game. I thought, you know, I thought, Oh, this will be great. Like, you know, I could talk about some of those things that, um, that I experienced in the past.

[00:39:54] Matt Fiorenza: And, and, um, cause I was at the point in my journey where I was sharing my [00:40:00] story all over. I was volunteering for Sable Warrior and I was telling my story all over, uh, not knowing that I would start to struggle again and that I would have the most significant suicide attempt during the filming, the three and a half years that he followed me around.

[00:40:15] Matt Fiorenza: And really, he, Conrad Weaver, the producer and director, creator of the film, he became part of our family, really. And when all these different You know, I started to struggle again, essentially during covid and everybody I was working with basically told me to get lost and I remember calling him and saying, hey, man, like, I, I relapsed I'm struggling.

[00:40:48] Matt Fiorenza: My PTSD symptoms are out of control. I'm having ideation and he goes, Oh my gosh, Matty, I thought you were going to call me and tell me you didn't want to be a part of this anymore, you know, and he's like, [00:41:00] it's part of your story, as long as you don't mind, I'd like to keep, you know, and I, I got to tell you, Bart, that, that man and that project gave me hope, it was a little bit of hope to keep, to finish that project for him and not by making a permanent decision.

[00:41:21] Matt Fiorenza: Thank you. To a temporary problem. And, um, and I love that man to this day. So to see the finished product, um, I was able to, you know, it has a happy ending for me. I mean, unfortunately, not for everybody in the film, um, sadly 

[00:41:35] Bart Leger: aware of that. Correct? 

[00:41:36] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, to go across the country and see that film. With people and have them come up to me and then, you know, I speak all over the country now and I get to go to the east coast because people see the film and they want me to come speak and, and, um, I just made so many connections.

[00:41:54] Matt Fiorenza: And so. It was weird having a camera in my face when I was having a panic attack. [00:42:00] But the result has just filled my soul. 

[00:42:06] Bart Leger: Was any part of the process therapeutic for you, you would think? I know that may be not the best choice of words. 

[00:42:14] Matt Fiorenza: You know what, it is actually. Yes. So going, there's a part in the film that my wife is in, and to this day I've seen that film like a million times.

[00:42:27] Matt Fiorenza: It still gets me every single time. But the first couple of times I went to see the film, I had my therapist with me. She's like a really good friend of mine. So she came with me. But over time watching the film, it's like exposure therapy, 

you know? So 

[00:42:44] Matt Fiorenza: yes, absolutely. I can watch the film now in a group of people.

[00:42:50] Matt Fiorenza: You know, like I said, it's just that one part that gets, that gets me every time, but, and then of course, 

[00:42:55] Bart Leger: hearing your own story from yourself, [00:43:00] 

[00:43:01] Matt Fiorenza: you know, it just, I, I snap it's a, it's snapshots in time of where I was at the time. And, um, it's a good reminder of how important doing the work that I do is not only for other people, but most importantly, my, my own daily practice and the things that I do every day for my own mental health are absolutely important.

[00:43:22] Matt Fiorenza: So, when I see that, and I look back and I go, okay, like, like, I know way more than I did even, you know. Then and I'm going to keep doing what works, you know, so yeah, it's at first it was kind of weird But I think Conrad did it like we the first time we watched it together as a group Because I didn't know how it was going to turn out, you know, I um He did such a wonderful job at telling the story 

[00:43:47] Bart Leger: What message do you hope viewers take away from watching the film?

[00:43:51] Matt Fiorenza: You know, I think the biggest the biggest thing would be that you're not alone. You're not alone You [00:44:00] And the importance of reaching out and asking for help. I think those are the two big things. And that we may not think when we're in the middle of it that we matter, but there are people in our lives who love us and we really, really matter to.

[00:44:22] Matt Fiorenza: And those are the people that, if we make that decision, will be devastated for the rest of their lives. 

[00:44:28] Bart Leger: That makes a difference, doesn't it? Amen. So you would recommend as many agencies or organizations as possible to sponsor a showing of the film? 

[00:44:38] Matt Fiorenza: I would. Absolutely. I would. Yeah, it's, and it, in my experience, and this is going to sound bad, but make them come.

[00:44:50] Matt Fiorenza: Make it mandatory. Because if you make it, if people don't want to look at it, it's hard. It's hard. It's a hard thing to look at. It's, it's, it's a hard thing to watch [00:45:00] because it brings, it's going to bring, it's going Emotions and feelings in everybody. 

[00:45:05] Bart Leger: People can relate to it, right? 

[00:45:06] Matt Fiorenza: Absolutely. And we, we're not feelings people.

[00:45:09] Matt Fiorenza: We don't want to feel our feelings. That's the problem, part of it. 

[00:45:12] Bart Leger: Exactly. 

[00:45:13] Matt Fiorenza: Right? So I was saying, make it a, make it a mandatory thing. And, and I've even, uh, I did one, uh, in Glendale, California, where the police department and the fire department had a date night. And they each the both agencies, they got to bring their wives and they had a dinner for him and stuff and they watched it.

[00:45:31] Matt Fiorenza: And then we had a clinician and myself speak afterwards. And it was awesome. The chiefs both chiefs were there and to have the spouses there as well. Pretty impactful. 

[00:45:42] Bart Leger: I'll bet. 

[00:45:43] Matt Fiorenza: I'll bet. 

[00:45:43] Bart Leger: Now you've started a nonprofit, haven't you? 

[00:45:46] Matt Fiorenza: I did. 

[00:45:47] Bart Leger: Yeah, I did. Was it, what was it called? 

[00:45:50] Matt Fiorenza: It's called the, uh, first responder peace and refuge foundation.

[00:45:54] Matt Fiorenza: Um, our website should be up here in the next, in the next week or two, I actually just [00:46:00] was online looking at the new, the new stuff, but, uh, essentially, like I said, I. I know where the pinch points are. I've, I, you know, I've been on both sides. I've been the business side of treatment center. I've been, um, I've been on the department side and I've been on the, I've been through the work comp process.

[00:46:19] Matt Fiorenza: I, I just, I've learned through my own experience and working with others where all the pinch points are and, and I, my thought, and it's always been in my heart. Um, I believe God gave me a word for sure a long time ago about this is that we're not going to change the system overnight. So what we need to do is find those areas and be able to stand in the gaps with these folks and just be another resource for, um, mostly we partnered with, uh, the Stella, uh, Stella ganglion block, uh, the Stella center.

[00:46:49] Matt Fiorenza: We're working on Dr. Amen in the Amen clinics for a spec scans of the brain and biopsych socials, Jonathan Chia with the reality center. A new poor body works [00:47:00] and an app that, uh, is for peer supporters. That's very affordable for them to communicate. Um, just to name a few, uh, want to be able to offer some of these services at no cost 

[00:47:12] Bart Leger: for first responders and their families.

[00:47:14] Bart Leger: What is the URL when your website does go live? 

[00:47:17] Matt Fiorenza: It is frprfoundation. com. FRPRfoundation. com. 

[00:47:26] Bart Leger: Well, we'll definitely have it in the show notes as well. 

[00:47:28] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, that'd be great. We have an Instagram that's up and, uh, yeah, I'm really excited about it. I think, I think it's going to be, it's going to be amazing and it's, I just want to be able to take away those barriers, especially the financial ones and be able to bring people in and get them the help immediately that they need.

[00:47:45] Matt Fiorenza: Okay, 

[00:47:46] Bart Leger: I'm 

[00:47:46] Matt Fiorenza: looking forward to that. 

[00:47:47] Bart Leger: So for those first responders and frontline professionals listening right now who might be struggling in silence, What would you say to them? What, what first steps should they take toward finding peace and refuge? 

[00:47:58] Matt Fiorenza: I would say [00:48:00] Reach out, reach out. The hardest thing to do is to pick up the phone and to call somebody or reach out on online with someone that you're following.

[00:48:11] Matt Fiorenza: There's so many different people doing good mental health help. Just find one person, one person that you can just cross your fingers and take that Hail Mary shot, um, to reach out to and say, I need help. Can you help me? And, uh, and it just let them take it from there. Let them take it from there. Great.

[00:48:31] Bart Leger: Well, Matty, before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners about what you're doing or anything that you'd like them to know? 

[00:48:40] Matt Fiorenza: Yeah, I would just say, um, I have a daily practice every day, and that consists of getting out of bed, reading my devotional, hitting my knees, saying my prayers, doing a meditation, driving in silence, [00:49:00] connecting with God to a 12 step meeting every single day.

[00:49:05] Matt Fiorenza: I do that every single day and that has made the biggest difference in my life completely So no matter what You do. Oh, and I make my bed, make my bed, even the side that my wife is, I make the side my wife is not in, but that's really important. So that would be my, my biggest thing to tell people, just have a daily practice, something you do every day, that self care to get you connected with, with the power greater than yourself, whatever that is.

[00:49:38] Matt Fiorenza: And do some, you know, it's an inside job and having a daily practice will really help. To prepare you for what you're gonna face throughout the day, you know, so daily practice for sure. 

[00:49:49] Bart Leger: That is great Well, I want to say a huge. Thank you for taking the time to be on the show today your insights your dedication Helping first responders are truly inspiring.

[00:49:58] Bart Leger: Yeah. Thank you, sir. [00:50:00] Appreciate you. Well, thank you Have a great rest of your day and God bless God bless you. Thanks so much for joining me today for another episode of surviving your shift Are you wondering if you're experiencing some of the signs of post traumatic stress or know someone who is? Grab a lifeline by going to survivingyourshift.

[00:50:25] Bart Leger: com and on the right sidebar, click to download your copy of Understanding PTSD, Its History, Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment. If you like the show, please follow and leave an honest review. Tell us what resonated with you. Your insights help us grow and create a community that supports one another.

[00:50:53] Bart Leger: Feeling the weight of your high stress job and struggling to find balance? In our [00:51:00] next episode of Surviving Your Shift, we talk with Dr. Anna Fitch Corey, Chief Well Being Officer at Clemson University. With her background working with the U. S. Army, And first responders, Dr. Corey shares real world strategies to help you manage stress, avoid burnout, and take control of your wellbeing.

[00:51:22] Bart Leger: If you're in a high pressure profession, you won't want to miss this one. Stick around. I'll see you on that episode. Till next time, let's learn how to thrive, not just survive.