Is There Life After Medical Retirement?

Bart Leger (0:0.930)
Ken, thank you for joining us today. So good for you to have you on the podcast.

Kenneth Macgregor (0:6.893)
Good to see you this morning, Bart.

Bart Leger (0:10.110)
Yeah, we were together in a in a training peer para counseling just a couple of weeks ago, aren't we?

Kenneth Macgregor (0:16.521)
Yes we were.

Bart Leger (0:20.354)
Yeah, that was a good class. Now, can you tell us a little bit about your background? You served in the United States Coast Guard, didn't you?

Kenneth Macgregor (0:31.337)
Yes, sir, for 21 years. And I was sonar technician for the first half of that career. And Coast Guard did away with sonar. So I went aviation electronics for the second half.

Bart Leger (0:48.738)
Yeah, yeah. How was that? How was that for you? Where where all did you serve?

Kenneth Macgregor (0:55.057)
everywhere from Florida to Alaska.

Bart Leger (1:1.139)
Alaska. That's one of the states I've never been. So what was Alaska like for you?

Kenneth Macgregor (1:9.581)
It was beautiful. I stayed for another 17 years after I retired because I loved it so much.

Bart Leger (1:20.906)
Yeah, where were you in Alaska?

Kenneth Macgregor (1:24.117)
I was in Kodiak, Sitka, and back to Kodiak.

Bart Leger (1:30.282)
Okay, what was one of the things about Alaska that just got your attention and made you want to stay there?

Kenneth Macgregor (1:41.569)
the wildlife, the environment.

Kenneth Macgregor (1:46.709)
the ocean up there, up in the Bering Sea, down in the Gulf of Alaska, and most of all the people.

Bart Leger (2:0.150)
The people, okay. Well, that's, that's a, that's sound like a beautiful place. So what inspired you to seek a career in the Coast Guard? How'd you get started doing that?

Kenneth Macgregor (2:17.837)
When I was eight years old, I saw what turned out to be a high endurance cutter across the estuary from us and when we were having dinner in a restaurant with my grandparents and I asked what that was. And that sparked my interest in the Coast Guard.
heard about that and why that ship had a gun on it even though it wasn't painted gray.

Bart Leger (2:57.904)
you know, you're not going to

Kenneth Macgregor (3:1.305)
I had a curiosity and I spent the next 10 years learning more about the Coast Guard before I entered.

Bart Leger (3:4.659)
Okay.

Bart Leger (3:13.050)
Oh, that sounds interesting. What about what were some memorable moments of the time of your service?

Kenneth Macgregor (3:23.173)
My first ship was an icebreaker, the icebreaker Westwind, and on New Year's Day 1984,

Kenneth Macgregor (3:35.961)
New Year's Day 1984 we ruptured the hole and create a 120 foot split in the hole down in Antarctica.

Bart Leger (3:56.282)
Oh my. What was that like? I mean, your lives were in danger, weren't they? Wasn't it?

Kenneth Macgregor (4:6.937)
It was the breach in the hull was above the water line. However, if water had intruded from the ocean, it would have been catastrophic for the ship.

Bart Leger (4:13.895)
Okay.

Bart Leger (4:25.058)
Wow. So how long were you in the guard when that happened?

Kenneth Macgregor (4:32.117)
I'd only been in for two, three years.

Bart Leger (4:37.762)
Okay, wow, that was a kind of a wake up moment that realizing how serious that was. Now, what did you do? How long did you say you were in the Coast Guard?

Kenneth Macgregor (4:46.156)
Yes.

Kenneth Macgregor (4:50.614)
for new one years.

Bart Leger (4:53.186)
21, a long, long career. Now, what did you do when you retired?

Kenneth Macgregor (5:0.309)
I went to work for the Coast Guard as a civilian employee in civil service and then also took a job in the evenings as a security officer at our hospital there in Kodiak.

Bart Leger (5:17.286)
Okay. Now you were telling me a couple of weeks ago that you were medically retired, is that correct?

Kenneth Macgregor (5:27.173)
Yes, I'm medically retired as the hospital security officer and as civil service.

Bart Leger (5:35.506)
Okay, so you retired with civil service as a civilian employee of the Coast Guard as well. So what, what led to, to that medical retirement?

Kenneth Macgregor (5:48.109)
I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in the fall of 2018 and...

Kenneth Macgregor (5:57.689)
it progressed at such a rate that it was clear within.
By April of 2019, it was clear that I was not going to be able to work and hold the job down again.

Bart Leger (6:19.166)
Now some of our listeners may not be very familiar with multiple sclerosis or MS. What are some of the symptoms? How did it affect you?

Kenneth Macgregor (6:31.757)
One of the, it affects everyone differently. However, one of the first effects for me was my gait. The rate at which I walked, the strength in my legs, uh, was profoundly affected. And for someone who was used to getting 20, 25,000 steps a day, it was.
dramatic the difference that it made when I could only get Well now I probably get one to five thousand

Bart Leger (7:13.858)
Mm-hmm. So was that, was that onset pretty quick, you said, for you? So, so like, what was the timeframe when you realized there's something going on?

Kenneth Macgregor (7:31.081)
With the military first responder mindset that I had, I was unwilling to admit that there was something going on for a long time. But once I finally did admit the fact that there's something going on in for my safety and the safety of those that I work with, I need to acknowledge it and get it addressed.

Kenneth Macgregor (8:2.457)
It was dramatic of what happened within the next year, year and a half.

Bart Leger (8:12.187)
Now you said you ignored it at the beginning or you just put it off the side. But what was going through your mind at this time? You were very active, I'm sure still very active. What was going through your mind?

Kenneth Macgregor (8:29.197)
I was thinking that I just needed to apply myself harder, work harder, get more work out and push myself through the wall and go to the next level. It just got harder and harder as I went along.

Bart Leger (8:58.886)
Oh, that typical macho mindset we have, isn't it? So after being medically retired, you found a new path, didn't you?

Kenneth Macgregor (9:14.259)
I had already come on board at 8.

Bart Leger (9:15.330)
Can you walk us through how you began that transition?

Kenneth Macgregor (9:18.745)
I had already come on board as the chaplain with Warrior Family Ministries and...
I was already involved for most of my time as a civilian employee of the Coast Guard as a member of the Critical Incident Stress Management Team there in Kodiak. So I looked at those and I said, well, one of the problems with MS is that it increases with stress.
and stress aggravates the condition. So I thought, okay, am I gonna have to give these up too?

Kenneth Macgregor (10:6.577)
And I took a step back. I looked at what happened, looked at how the events transpired. And I decided that with care and with watching out for my health overall, that I...
could and should still participate in these activities.

Bart Leger (10:37.603)
Mm-hmm. Were you familiar or were you aware with other veterans that had been medically retired? Did you have any framework from which to go from or this pretty new to you?

Kenneth Macgregor (10:54.321)
I knew other veterans that had medically retired, but...

Kenneth Macgregor (11:3.549)
Not well enough to know a lot about how they went about that process and how they came to terms with their having to step down from all the situations. I had a passing knowledge of them, but not a deep relationship with them.

Bart Leger (11:11.877)
Hmm.

Bart Leger (11:24.122)
From your experience or knowledge of them, did all of them make that transition well, or was it difficult for some of them?

Kenneth Macgregor (11:38.869)
Absolutely not. It was difficult for most of them and it was difficult for me too. However, being able to apply the skills that I learned through my SISM training, I

Bart Leger (11:46.594)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (12:0.925)
was more aware of and more alert to the possibility. One of the things with MS is quite often people have depression and they're feeling isolated and feeling depressed and sink into suicidal ideation. Having taken several.
suicide awareness courses, suicide intervention courses, I felt that it was important for me to.

Kenneth Macgregor (12:40.021)
do self-tracks periodically. And I would ask people that knew me well whether I was sinking into depression or not. I made a point when we moved down to North Carolina and left Alaska to connect with several men's group, Christian men's groups and.
Through those groups, I was able to establish relationships in fairly short order and get connected so that I didn't feel isolated and didn't feel the desire to sink into depression and poor me routine.

Bart Leger (13:32.954)
Mm-hmm. Well, let's move back just a little bit. You had said that you reached out and you were asking some of your those that you were acquainted with. To see how you were doing with the typical warrior mindset, how difficult was that for you to reach out and I guess become vulnerable.

Kenneth Macgregor (13:59.621)
It was always with key people that I knew and had that relationship with, where we would do self-tracks before we would go flying or self-tracks before we would go on a mission, so that

Bart Leger (14:10.902)
Mm-hmm.

Bart Leger (14:16.726)
So it wasn't just anyone, people you had to trust.

Kenneth Macgregor (14:20.509)
Right. People that I trusted, people that knew about the dangers of depression and suicide, people that had struggled with depression or suicidality at some point in their life.

Bart Leger (14:38.922)
Mm hmm. So I would say it would be your peers that you were talking to, right?

Kenneth Macgregor (14:46.717)
Yes, peers or people on the CSM team, whether they were peers or mental health.

Bart Leger (14:48.770)
Mm-hmm.

Bart Leger (14:57.982)
Right. Now when you say SISM team, you're talking about critical incident stress management.

Kenneth Macgregor (14:59.233)
fit.

Kenneth Macgregor (15:5.279)
Yes.

Bart Leger (15:7.538)
So how would you say, or would you say that your training in peer support and crisis intervention, how much do you feel or did that have an impact on your process of you being able to deal with and get through this being medically retired?

Kenneth Macgregor (15:36.305)
It was critical between that and my faith in God. Those are the two critical things that have affected my entire walk with MS.

Bart Leger (15:53.182)
So talk about, let's talk about for a second about the importance of, if someone finds themselves in a similar situation and maybe they, there's a diagnosis and there's medical retirement potentially looming in their future. Or those that are medically retired, let's talk a little bit about them. Or talk to the importance of moving forward, not getting stuck.

Kenneth Macgregor (16:27.329)
The...

Kenneth Macgregor (16:32.449)
It is absolutely essential that you learn about whatever illness or whatever disability you're facing. Know your treatment options. Know how to better care for yourself. Um, and seek those that have watched.
the road before you or seek those that have supported you in the past and will support you in the future.

Bart Leger (17:12.442)
So how would you say you personally found the strength and motivation to move forward? I mean despite all the challenges that you're still facing.

Kenneth Macgregor (17:26.333)
my daily devotion time reading the Bible, studying the Bible and...

Bart Leger (17:26.502)
I know you mentioned your faith.

Kenneth Macgregor (17:34.765)
the different men's groups that I belong to and being able to help people in the community gives me a purpose and is my purpose for this chapter.

Bart Leger (18:2.698)
I noticed you mentioned chapter. Is that, that's a pretty healthy way of looking at, you've just, your life didn't end, you're just starting a new chapter, right?

Kenneth Macgregor (18:16.902)
Exactly.

Bart Leger (18:19.136)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (18:20.541)
with people who have struggled with suicidality or people that are family members, quite often you'll see this semicolon.

Bart Leger (18:32.172)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (18:34.257)
They use that as symbol of my story isn't over, it's continuing. There's more to hear. There's more to this than just this. So when I was a teenager, I had one life. When I was in the Coast Guard, I had one life. And even there I had...

Bart Leger (18:41.814)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (19:3.533)
two lives because I spent half my career on ships in sonar and the second half of my career was in helicopters. So that was a transition and a chapter within a chapter sort of. And then when I retired from the Coast Guard, my life didn't end and I continued to work.
and found new career paths to follow. And now I'm just starting another chapter. And five years in, and the chapter, The Sky's the Limit.

Bart Leger (19:39.584)
Mm-hmm.

Bart Leger (19:52.514)
Now you say the sky's the limit. Now are you, you're still, and your MS is progressive, and I'm sure you're on some medication for that. Are there some side effect challenges that you're dealing with because of that?

Kenneth Macgregor (20:11.601)
Yes, there are. The medication that I was on, I'm no longer on because of chemistry with my body and whatnot. So I'm not on disease modifying therapy. However, I am on several medications to treat some of the side effects of the illness and...
to help me to be able to get out of the house. I use a rollator whenever I'm walking outside, whenever I'm walking anywhere. And then I've got a manual wheelchair and a power wheelchair if I'm going for any length of time or challenging locations.

Bart Leger (21:12.358)
Mm-hmm. So on the subject of losing our identity, I remember when I retired. And I was looking forward to retirement. Everybody, when they're working, they're always looking to that day when they will be able to retire and do whatever they want to do. And I remember as the day came and my first
day of retirement. Didn't feel too different. It wasn't until about a week later that I heard three sheriff's office units barreling down the main road that's beyond our subdivision, licensed sirens, and for the first time it hit me.
I'm not involved in it and I'm not going to know what's going on because won't hear from the guys. So it really did hit me and losing former identity, especially with that warrior mentality, your identity with the military. I know that can be incredibly challenging. So how did you navigate this part of your journey? And what advice would you offer our listeners?
who may be struggling with similar feelings.

Kenneth Macgregor (22:42.709)
When I retired from the Coast Guard originally, I cheated because I took a job working for the Coast Guard as a civilian. So I was still part of the organization, even though I was in a different role. And I would still have a connection with people when they were preparing for a flight or coming back from the flight. And...

Bart Leger (23:2.146)
Hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (23:12.525)
Then I joined the Sysm team to help others deal with what I'd already gone through when I was active duty. So helping people come to terms with things when they came back from a bad flight or a situation.

Kenneth Macgregor (23:43.529)
When I was medically retired, I lost all connection. Lost all connection with.

Kenneth Macgregor (23:59.317)
the air station because I was, when I was medically retired, my wife and I moved down to North Carolina because our daughter asked us to build on her property, her and her husband's property.

Kenneth Macgregor (24:20.593)
it would give us option to be closer to five of our grandkids. And we took that opportunity, but it was very much a possibility of bad things happening with isolation because of the fact that I didn't have a connection where I

Bart Leger (24:46.348)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (24:47.865)
with the community that I've been part of for 17, 18 years and church work, all that stuff. So
That's why when we got here...

Bart Leger (25:5.354)
So you say there probably... So you say there was a certain sense of loss of identity, right?

Kenneth Macgregor (25:9.630)
That's why when we got here I was...
Yes, and that's why when we got here, I was very intentional with creating relationships and evaluating which relationships were helpful and which were not. And if they weren't helpful, they went by the wayside. If they were helpful, then I nurtured them and
you get out of anything what you put in. So if you put in and invest in others, they will put in and invest in you.

Bart Leger (25:54.891)
I know you mentioned some of the other things that you began to do after you retired. What role did finding new passions or new interests play in helping you regain that sense of purpose and maybe identity post retirement?

Kenneth Macgregor (26:13.459)
It was...
crucial to me to find new roles where I could serve and where it wouldn't drain me to the point where I couldn't continue that service.

Kenneth Macgregor (26:39.305)
My wife and I joined a church, we became Stephen ministers, and are walking alongside people through that process and focusing outward, not just inward.

Bart Leger (26:40.406)
so far. Go ahead.

Bart Leger (27:1.521)
Hmm.
So helping others in turn helped you, right?

Kenneth Macgregor (27:4.252)
It's.

Kenneth Macgregor (27:8.509)
Yes, with MS or other medical situations, it's important to learn what you need to do to take care of yourself.
Just like when we're first responders or military, you make sure your gear is maintained, you make sure your body is maintained, your mindset is maintained, so you're ready to go on that next call, so you're ready to go to that next operation. And...
with living with MS is the same thing. I need to make sure that I'm looking and listening to my body and my mindset as to whether I'm ready to go and help others or whether today's not a good day for it. Tomorrow I'll do this or tomorrow I'll do that. And having to keep that running.
safety check to make sure that you're not overdoing, but you're doing exactly what you need to do and getting out in the community to stay as involved as your condition allows you to get out and be involved.

Bart Leger (28:39.062)
Now for our listeners who are first responders or other frontline professionals potentially facing the possibility of medical retirement, what advice would you give them for coping with that transition and maybe finding new avenues for being fulfilled?

Kenneth Macgregor (28:59.957)
There are a lot of different options for you, depending on what your situation is and what is bringing about this transition.

Kenneth Macgregor (29:19.685)
you have gone into mental health and was that in process before you got out of the force?

Bart Leger (29:38.155)
the sheriff's office. Yes it
Yeah, so it's something that I was able to continue when I retired. And plus I was also on the CISM team, probably for the last, I don't know, 20, 25, 26 years.

Kenneth Macgregor (29:42.011)
Okay.

Kenneth Macgregor (29:57.629)
Now, what brought about this interest in the system and mental health with you?

Bart Leger (30:7.638)
Well, for me, it was, I was seeing all of the ways that my co-workers were being affected by what we had to see, what we had to hear. Our department faced a few line of duty shootings and just seeing what, what our deputies went through and the surrounding officers went through.
Just something had to be done and so I went and got the training and our team was very active. We were part of a state team and so we went and we helped. State police municipal. Sheriff's offices across the state, so it was very beneficial. Plus it just it gave us a way to give back.

Bart Leger (31:7.734)
So it was very, very important for me.

Kenneth Macgregor (31:8.637)
and
and mine is very similar. I.
Coast Guard introduced SISM when I was still active duty. However, I didn't want to go anywhere near those people. My last year in the Coast Guard, I saw a flight crew that came back from a tough mission to go on. And the SISM team was there to welcome them and...
They went in and did defusing. Um, and when they came out.
Their feet weren't dragging as much.

Bart Leger (31:59.950)
Hmm

Kenneth Macgregor (32:0.577)
They had a half smile on their faces when, in trying to make jokes, but it wasn't already there, but I could see the transformation in.
the men and women that went into that room and when they came out. And I said, maybe there's something to the Psycho Mumba Jumbo after all.

Bart Leger (32:19.506)
Hmm.

Bart Leger (32:28.715)
So just so talking about their experiences with peers who in a sense have walked a mile in their shoes that in itself just letting it getting it out was beneficial right.

Kenneth Macgregor (32:43.633)
Right. And so when the opportunity came up for me to get the training, I took the training, whether I was going to use it or not, was going to depend on what I thought of the training. And had three classes.

Bart Leger (33:0.916)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (33:8.061)
in a week and a half and at the end I was ready to go and help others deal with what I didn't handle the right way when I was in the service.

Bart Leger (33:28.930)
So Ken, in your experience, what are some practical steps individuals can take?
to adapt to their circumstances or begin to thrive despite the challenges they face. What are some practical steps?

Kenneth Macgregor (33:48.877)
Some practical steps are don't hold it in. Find safe people to be able to talk to about it, whether they be peers, whether they be on the CISM team. Don't be afraid to reach out to mental health, a counselor or psychologist, psychiatrist if you need to. There's no...
harm in reaching out for help. We tell people that the sooner they call for help, the sooner they get EMS activated, the better the outcome. The sooner a boater in distress calls for the Coast Guard, the more likely the Coast Guard is to be able to get to them before it just goes completely wrong.

Bart Leger (34:35.156)
Mm-hmm.

Bart Leger (34:48.878)
Hmm

Kenneth Macgregor (34:51.777)
take that first step and ask for help.

Bart Leger (34:51.902)
Now, what about support? Yeah. Now what about support networks like, um, groups for, for those maybe who've been medically retired or, or simply retired and are having some difficulty? Are there any, um, how important you, you believe being in a, in a good support group would be.

Kenneth Macgregor (35:18.597)
If there's one in your area, or nowadays with the internet, there's always one in your area. By all means, make sure that it isn't one that's just focused on all the aches and pains and

Bart Leger (35:28.386)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (35:42.909)
Well, it was me because that's not healthy, but one that's inspiring you to take the next step to grow, to challenge yourself to rise to a new level or new purpose.

Bart Leger (36:0.770)
So looking back on your journey, what would you consider to be the most important or most significant lessons that you learn? I know you said something in our training a couple of weeks ago about identity. Do you remember that?

Kenneth Macgregor (36:24.109)
It has to go with the chapters. Uh, the, the whole book is my identity. The whole book of my life is my identity. My identity is not being the flight mechanic in a H 60 helicopter. My identity is not being the sonar tech on a three 78 hind during scatter, my identity is not being the security officer in a hospital.

Bart Leger (36:33.315)
Mm-hmm.

Bart Leger (36:41.079)
Mm-hmm.

Kenneth Macgregor (36:53.313)
Those are all parts of my identity. Being a Christian is part of my identity and that is the most important part of my identity.

Bart Leger (37:7.538)
I believe one of the ways you said it was... I believe one of the ways you said it, if I can remember, you said that you are not what you do.

Kenneth Macgregor (37:8.193)
because that's not transitionary. Hmm?

Kenneth Macgregor (37:22.541)
Correct.

Kenneth Macgregor (37:26.822)
Not what I do, I'm who I am.

Bart Leger (37:27.146)
Yeah, you are, you're who I am. We're not what we're do what we do. All right. Now, now a personal question. What's your favorite self care activity and what, what do you plan on doing today for to take care of yourself?

Kenneth Macgregor (37:47.585)
studying my Bible and
I also challenge myself with...
trainings like the one that we had. I'm currently enrolled in two online trainings that are self-paced and I'll be participating in those to help develop more and yes.

Bart Leger (38:15.395)
Alright, so personal improvement, right?
Yeah. So finally, Ken, what message would you like to leave our listeners with, especially those who may be grappling with the uncertainty of medical retirement and its impact on their lives? What would you, final parting words to them?

Kenneth Macgregor (38:40.461)
Don't give up hope. Focus on the positive, not the negative. Focus on what you can do, not what you can't do. There are days where, yeah, I don't get out and do stuff, but I still try to make phone calls on those days to those that I wish I could see in person. There are days that I don't, but...

Kenneth Macgregor (39:13.241)
much more than I do. So, focus on the positive and not on the negative.

Bart Leger (39:23.186)
Very good. Now, if our listeners would like to contact you, how can they get in touch with you or learn a little bit more about your journey?

Kenneth Macgregor (39:42.101)
Well, I don't have social media, so...

Bart Leger (39:46.237)
Okay.

Kenneth Macgregor (39:51.361)
The only ways would be phone and email. Pardon?

Bart Leger (39:51.966)
Now you mentioned warrior family... Okay. Now you mentioned warrior family ministries. Is that something that's local to you, or is it across the country?

Kenneth Macgregor (40:5.337)
It's a organization of chaplains that started in Wilmington, North Carolina. However, it goes from coast to coast. We've got chaplains in California, Michigan, all over.

Bart Leger (40:22.818)
All right, well, I'll include information for them in our show notes. Well, Ken, thank you so much for being with us today on the podcast. I wish you the best in your future journey and definitely want to stay in touch.

Kenneth Macgregor (40:24.257)
Florida.

Kenneth Macgregor (40:39.445)
Yes, indeed. Thank you for having me.

Bart Leger (40:43.335)
Oh, you will. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Bart Leger (0:0.622)
Thanks so much for joining us today for another episode of Surviving Your Shift. Let's stay in touch. Please consider joining our newsletter by going to survivingyourshift .com forward slash P forward slash join. There will also be a link in the show notes. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and leave a review.
Tell us what hit home for you. Your insights will help us grow and create a community that supports one another. In our next episode, we'll be talking about the warning signs of burnout in first responders and other frontline professionals. Don't let your whole world shrink down to just going through the day. Just like the check engine light in your vehicle, we'll uncover some subtle indicators that could point to a bigger problem.
growing beneath the surface. Drawing insights from research on combat stress reactions and crisis interventions will shed some light on the importance of recognizing these warning signs early on to prevent long -term negative impacts on your mental health. Come back next week to find out if you are in the danger zone and how to climb back out. Till next week, let's learn how to thrive, not just survive.